Xbox 360 owners who purchase music and don't want streaming: iPod.

...and we have another bias review.

You know what would be cool? UI metrics for these things. Say you have 500 songs on an ipod and a zune...how long does it take a brand new user to begin playing a randomly chosen song? You get the idea right? Could be a bit of a project, but I think it would be interesting data that potential purchasers would love to see. Anybody agree?

Honestly I tried both, and do you know what I'm sticking with? The Samsung YP-T9:

http://www.gizmodo.com/search/yp-t9

http://www.cnet.com.au/mp3players/mp3players/0,239036128,3...

Granted: It's only 4 GB. But I have all the music I want on there plus I can watch movies compressed with XviD compression.

The size of the screen doesn't matter to me. I just love how I can fit the samsung in that small pocket inside of my right jean pocket (you know what I'm talking about/the one nothing else could fit into)

Anyway - Cheers Gizmodo on really tackling the Zune.

...just for the record, I agree that the iPod is probably better than the Zune. I'm just sick of hearing about it.

At least this person gave scenarios where you might want to buy a Zune over an iPod. So coo dose to you!

Consideration - if you are tech saavy.

There are tools that remove the DRM from your iTunes purchased songs (for Gizmodo's sake, I won't say what they are, but you know...). Needless to say, they work great!

Consideration - Audio quality

I'm definitely giving in to the Zune here. The audio quality out of the headphone jack on the iPod actually prompted me to purchase the PocketDok line out for my car. With the Zune, no such device is needed. I couldn't hear any distortion at all through the headphone jack on the Zune.

Consideration - Ease of Use

While I've had various iPods now for 2 years, I've always found the scroll wheel difficult to operate easily while driving (usually, I would just forward through the songs on shuffle). With the Zune's up, down, left, right config, I find it infinitely easier to operate.

Consideration - Learning curve

With all that said, I think there may be a slightly steeper learning curve with the Zune and it's software vs. iPod and iTunes. Having said that, I'm still already set up in less than a day (and I've really barely had time to play).

Summary

All in all, I think the Zune is great! I'm hooked especially on the interface and the audio quality doesn't require any additional accessories. I'm definitely happy.

Note: There is one other thing to consider - the Zune software takes up a heck of a lot of memory. I'm not sure why. It seems to load and run faster than iTunes.

as I'm writing this I'm listening to my BRAND NEW ZUNE. and of course I'm going to direct people to the zune, but you might say "well mr. good looking, you're obviously biased owning the zune and not the ipod." I own both. and now, I know what it's like to buy a product that is worth it's denomination in quality, and not shininess. And now I know what it's like to feel... (quoting Braveheart) FREEDOMMMMMM!!!!!!! BYE BYE ITUNES, and hello Freedom.

"Xbox 360 owners who purchase music and don't want streaming: iPod.

...and we have another bias review."

How is that biased? They've given a pretty good explanation for their reasons and decision. If they're giving the edge to the iPod and the reasons aren't based on 360 functionality, then it would only make sense to recommend an iPod for 360 users who don't care about streaming. This isn't a list of points to be tallied up to decide a winner (in which case the Zune would win), it's a list of post-decision verdicts based on hypothetical priorities.

metafile -- also for the record, I do agree with you that reviews such as this one are prone to fanboyism and bias. I'm just saying that in this case Jason has done an admirable job of refraining from rampant fanboyism and objectively listing the qualities of each player. Kudos indeed.

Fair review. Good job guys. I agree with the information. I am doing a lot of video downloading with my Zune including my "personal collection".

Zune is awesome for the video. I would say keep the nano for the music. My honest opinion.

Not sure what 360 owner wouldn't want streaming music and what not..

"Consideration - Ease of Use

While I've had various iPods now for 2 years, I've always found the scroll wheel difficult to operate easily while driving (usually, I would just forward through the songs on shuffle). With the Zune's up, down, left, right config, I find it infinitely easier to operate."

Hear hear! (or is it Hear here!)

This was my second biggest complaint when switching from an iRiver ihp-120 to an iPod.

First complaint was the whole navigation solely through id3 tags.... unfortunately this isn't solved by the Zune or I'd go buy one today (though it is kinda solved by the iPod if you download and isntall the battery eating rockbox software).

Also, Medicating: don't you mean "byebye itunes, hello zuno marketplace"?

All i want is a drag and drop file system which you can navigate from the player, nice graphical interface and big HD. Is that really so much to ask in a new mp3 player? I've still got my eyes on the meizu despite it's measly 2gb storage.

What about. . .

Built in or seamless integration into your auto entertainment system.

iPod

Ability to charge/power player and watch video content from your seatback at 30,000 feet.

iPod (soon to be fully integrated into airline entertainment systems)

You're running OS X or Windows Vista: iPod

"Not sure what 360 owner wouldn't want streaming music and what not.."

Also you can stream to a 360 from iTunes, you just wont be able to play purchased music unless you like everyone else who buys from iTunes strips the DRM off

My take on these things....

Apple lovers will hate Microsoft and go iPod, it's in their blood...

Microsoft lovers will go Zune because they don't have an Apple inferiority complex....

Linux lovers will hate anything but Linux and will make fun of Apple/Microsoft lovers, all the while sacrificing any real support in the market place.....

The other 97% of the population (myself included) will go to Circuit City and buy the first thing they see & like and it will work just fine for them, never caring about who made it.......

How much of the features missing from Zune marketplace (TV shows, movies, etc.) won't be added relatively quickly? I mean the iPod didn't have any of that stuff when it came out... I think Apple will be playing catchup when the next iPod comes out, and by then MS will be releasing a flash Zune and announcing next-gen Zune. So I think Microsoft could be doing pretty well by this time next year...

I am really considering buying a zune. Can anyone tell me if it is comfortable to hold? I know it sounds funny but some of the pictures make it look thick and uncomfortable, while others look fine. Also, when you want to sync videos, does it automatically convert to a supported format? If yes, then which will it convert from?

I personally am saving my money for the true video ipod whenever that comes out...

Apple playing catch up? Your serious? In like 3 months we are going to see iPods that will put the Zune to shame. Seriously. Also, it's a lot easier to add things like TV shows and video downloads when someone has already been the pioneer and set and example. Kudos to Apple for being the first, the true innovator.

If you think that buying "points" so you can get a single song is a bag of crap: iPod

If you'd rather take your chances getting locked into an Apple system vs. MS because at least you'll get abused in new and more aesthetically pleasing ways: iPod

Ive been reading the reviews above and would basically agree with everyone but, I have noticed that from amongst the comentators in this forum, those of you who have experience with mp3 players from makers other than the two under discussion here, they tend to like them better. I wonder why that is so.
I personally own an IAudio M3L with a 20gb HD. I love it for its ease of use and on the computer i can just drag my mp3 files from any folder to the players' folder and it automatically sorts the songs out and plays them back wonderfully. I think the Ipod and Zune would never be able to do that. Also with both the Ipod and Zune in order to shuffle between songs you have to the whole player out of your pocket (which is not a comfortable feat in Tokyo's subways), whereas mine comes with a remote with a 8-line lcd dislay which is , again, very convenient to use.

Dont use 'have to buy my library again' as a reason. There are LEGAL ways around DRM on all file types via Fair Use. Not Fairuse4WM or any other program that strips DRM, its much more simple than that. You have the right to burn any song you want to CD via the store you bought it from (99% sure it works on iTunes just like it does on rhapsody for me) and when you burn an actual CD (not just copied MP3s to a CDR) then you can rip them to MP3's that are DRM free.

It's a pain in the ass but it's not a deal breaker, once you have your music in the library stripped (legally) of its DRM you're out of that excuse.

I agree mostly with the rest, the first generation was a little bit of a let down but I'm holding out hope for a software/firmware upgrade to possibly unlock some features they couldn't squeeze into their launch schedule with this existing hardware.

I will be a bit pissy if they pull an xbox and release the next gen player and for the most part ignore this iteration though.

buying points is a load of crap...also...WHERE ARE MY VIDEOS? whats going on Micro$oft! I don't know why I'm still buying your product. I guess it's because, I've always wanted apple to be put in their place...that'll be the day

Wait until the next ipod comes out. Possibly a widescreen accompanied wiith new features? IPOD! I'm sure the Zune has it's benfits (it's nice in its own right) and Microsoft with throw a ton of money at it until it catches on. That's the obligatory Microsoft product strategy, right? They'll beat down your doors until you succumb. All these complaints towards iPod bias. I always encounter such Apple hatred in this comments section. The woeful PC users that feel so persecuted by the iPod and Apple remind me of Mac users just a decade ago. Actually to a lesser extent, until this day too. Wow, how the worm turns.

Holy crap. They're just MP3 players.

If you don't like the idea of tipping Universal and soon other media-moguls for starving their artists then screwing their customers, and calling all MP3 player owners thieves publicly, $1 just for existing: IPOD

Microsoft has set the poorest precedence for the consumer in the universe. When you pay for a Zune, you are partly chipping in for Microsoft's bribe to Universal. Congrads jack ass!

You want extended batery life: iPod
You want a lighter and smaller device: iPod
You want advance sounds settings such as equalizer and volume limit: iPod
You want to see any video content, not only the one you bought in itunes: Zune

I've been listening to this debate closely, but for now I frankly don't think either is worth my hard-earned money. I've got a Creative Zen Vision: M, which absolutely has its flaws... but it'll be serviceable at least until the second-gen Zune comes out.

That's what I'm banking on, really: either the true-video iPod (assuming it kick as much ass as it claims), or the 2G Zune. The next war will be the one to really watch out for.

I agree TommySez, but for some people it's a statement. Saying the iPod or the Zune sucks to some is like delivering a punch to the gut. I bought a Zune last night, but I'm afraid I might just stick with the Archos 604. I'll hold out a little longer before returning the Zune in order to see if any firmware updates address my concerns.

I agree, TommySez, but for some people it's a statement. It really is a swift punch to the gut for some people to have their cool gadget called a POS. I might return my Zune and stick with the Archos 604 if Microsoft doesn't address some of the Zune's problems with a firmware update soon.

Am I the only one that doesn't care about a huge screen?

I love my music, all 42.45 GBs of it, and the big screen just burns battery. Look at the Zune, you've got a whole 25% of the battery you're wasting actually doing something, and the rest is just your pretty little artwork??

I'm fine with my 4G iPod's screen, granted it's black and white and been replaced around 8 times in the past two years, I'm fine with the size.

Am I alone?

"the next iPod will be a thousand times better than the Zune. It will make phone calls and have a big screen and have wifi and bluetooth and pop-out wings like buzz lightyear. And it's coming out in 3 months."

Sure it is, fanboy, sure it is.

Is buying points really that stupid? Points=dollars, If you base anything on that reason alone you are a moron. Whats the difference between using points or buying songs off the apple store? Please anyone with a logical answer to that question repost. And for all those people that keep saying "wait till the video Ipod comes out" just shut the Fu** up. If you want to play the waiting game you'll never buy anything or you'll keep buying every gen Ipod thats out there till one does come out. Ipod vs Zune=coin flip to me. Like i4ni says "It's only 4 GB. But I have all the music I want..." mine is in PSP form but it too plays games(real games), movies, music(with album art), pics, oh and i can surf the web too. Now who wants to argue screen size? Please no comments on UMD's cuz they aren't needed. $200PSP+$80duo pro 4gig card is alot more fun then a $250 Zune or Ipod.

We're all techies here and we know the difference between good and evil - but how's about the typical consumer out there that don't give a damn about the technical stuff?

So what are these consumer lemmings buying? Amazon.com's bestseller list for MP3 players bought online: http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172630/re...

has the Zune currently in 7th place - with 5 models of iPods and 1 SanDisk selling better.

I think they both suck, but that's just me.

oh i have one more thing to say. netcretin, thank you for that list. I'd like to point out, that the Zune is #7. How long did it take Apple to get to #1? 5 years. Have some faith. I guarantee it. 2g Zunes (If 1st gen Zunes take off)will get a whole lot of attention. Microsoft has some work to do, but it will NOT be long. Microsoft said themselves that although the Zune has immense potential, they will not see anything of the ipods magnitude and success until later on.

One feature on the ipod that's saved my butt a few times:

Being able to mount as a HD and recover my music collection when my computer's HD took a dive.

I only buy CDs and rip my own music and I will continue to do this so Zune's ability to redownload purchased songs has no benefit for me.

That and I don't like where MS is going, paying royalities to Universal for each Zune sold. There was an article today with Universal's president accusing all non-Zune users of being pirates and that they deserve a share of profits of all players.

I'm not going to pay Universal a cent of my money because they think I pirate their music.

i like the bigger screen.. i mean ipod is too small to really enjoy movies.. i don't know if the Zune is big enough to accomplish that ..

Also Zune is made by toshiba.. I've liked their laptops for years .. and years..

The one i got from them has lasted around 7 years. Not sure if that makes Zune a winner.. but it does make it shine in my eyes :P.

Metafil- Most reviews are inherently biased, get over it.

Don't forget integration with the iTV, and the fact that if you want video the true video iPod is a coming.

"I'm fine with my 4G iPod's screen, granted it's black and white and been replaced around 8 times in the past two years, I'm fine with the size.

Am I alone?"

Nick, I just bought a refurbished iPod mini 2-3 weeks ago. I dig the display in its full one-colour glory.

Let's go sit in the corner while they point at us and look funny.

Linux lovers will hate anything but Linux and will make fun of Apple/Microsoft lovers, all the while sacrificing any real support in the market place....
if you look at the recent server sales factors you will notice that Linux is starting to sell a lot more and is only getting better due to its lower cost with same if not better functions than what apple or Microsoft have
but any how on to the topic at hand
the zune for it being first gen. kicks ass so what if the ipod has more space your never going to be bored enough to listen to that much music at once and besides as long as you have enough memory to keep new songs coming until the battery is dead whats the big deal.
ipods cant accept all formats of video so why does everyone point out that the zune only accept .wmv?
its no mac complaint so what the first gen i pods weren't pc compliant
and as to no vista support that is a load of shit. ms has only sent out beta versions of their newest os and i dont think they would ship it out to consumers with out support for their products unless it is a scheme to get the public to buy a zune now and then when vista comes out to buy a 2nd gen zune that is vista compliant
to end this buy what you want the are the same just one or the other is better in some fields but it just really comes down to who are you more loyal to ms or apple?

I'd like to point out, that the Zune is #7. How long did it take Apple to get to #1? 5 years.

It took three years for the iPod to become the leading digital player in the US (October 2004).

I recently had a friend who bought the Toshiba Gigabeat. When I saw the interface and realized how closed it looked like Windows Vista Ultimate's Media Center, I was hooked and decided to wait until they released the Zune.

Someone asked if it was difficult to hold. We had a great discussion at work. Here's the deal:
The video iPod and Zune are comparable in weight as far as we could tell. I don't know if that's true or not, but we really couldn't tell the difference. I think it must be the metal parts on the iPod? Not sure.
The Zune kinda feels like it would break if you dropped it too hard, but the iPod feels solid. (I'm pretty sure both would have the same reaction though if you dropped it).
I like Zune's touch a little better. I think the lack smudginess makes you feel like you can actually use it without scratching it up.

Jason Chen? An Ipod/mac user?!...I lost all faith in you man, nah i'm joking, jason chen is cool...cause he has a zune, wii, ps3, everything we wish we had....still though, we all know Jason chen's just one of us...with a cool job as a gadget blogger who gets free stuff 24/7....*cries*

Does the Zune only play WMV (for video)?

I plan to to put plenty of videos on the Zune if I get one but there's a wide variety of video formats. If it can only play WMV than I might as well not even bother with it.

Can anyone shed light on this?