I love my e200, I actually sold my 4gb nano to buy the e200 so I could use it with Napster. I am now a prophet of the Sansa e200's and I tell everyone to get one, instead of the nano. Oh and I had my nano for over a year, so it's not like I bought and sold it. Oh and I did like my nano, but only accepting Apple's DRM was too much of a hassle for my Napster addiction :>

So yeah, I suppose this comment is rather pointless. :P

What about the Zen Vision W? That's what I plan on getting instead of the iPod.

Everyone makes such a deal about Apple's DRM or fairplay, that's all i am allowed to put on my ipod... boohoo. Crazy kitties what about MP3s, or anything you rip from anything. I use Napster and my Ipod all the time and have never had a problem shoveling loads of music into it. Though that synaptic prototype could change my mind.

Your forgetting the other thing that a lot of people avoid iPods because of: iTunes.

The Sansa sports the best interface among the anti-iPods as it's the closest to replicating the iPod's system without creating copyright issues.

Maybe the one's I've tried were all borked in some way, but the Sansa wheel seems really stiff and awkward. Perhaps it loosens up and gets more usable over time.

It has a blue backlight, though, which the kids seem to like.

i'm going to give an old school shout to the iRiver H320 or H340... with the exception of the size, in my mind it was the pinacle of DAPs. Although a bit biger than the ipod, and was at times a bit confusing to use, it had it all going on...
-fm tuner
-voice recorder
-you could flash it to the Korean firm ware and get video play back
-you could run it with rockbox
-even get it set up with a sweet dual-boot for either iRiver or rockbox firmware

I would really like to see someone recreate the various pmp interfaces in flash so that people can try them out and compare them online. The companies should be happy to help out, since this might loosen the iPod's stranglehold on the pmp market.

You['re] forgetting the other thing that a lot of people avoid iPods because of: iTunes.

True, because it's not like there are any alternative iPod managers out there.

i'm currently in the midst of a boycott of all personal electronics because i'm too "poor". i'll hold out for the 2nd-gen zune.

WHY do they never mention Archos players? hell, Archos is the first company (that i know of) to release a PMP with a 4.3" widescreen display, and i think also the first to have a PMP with up to 120GB of storage space. if you ask me, Archos is leaps and bounds ahead of iPod..... all they're lacking is a US marketing budget.

hoping my last comment actually get's posted, otherwise this will look weird, but Archos actually has PMP's that are up to 160GB in storage, not 120 like i had previously stated. WAAAAYYYY ahead of iPod (though the 160GB model does cost $600)

I have a 3 year old iriver ihp-120 and its still doing me proud.

I can plug it into any PC or mac and it comes up as an external drive, so I can drag and drop anything and not have to use the useless itunes or any other god auful software that comes with mp3 players now.

It has direct encoding. it also has a built in mic so I can record lectures.

I'd mark up a pass on the ipods because they have shorter lifespans than hamsters before dying. Oh, and inability to easily use the thing as a USB drive, I love that of my Rio (rio) Carbon.

And jeez, ipods are totally mainstream and lame.

Actually Microsoft's brilliant marketing team has declared the next Zune will be labelled the Zune 720G , to compete with the iPod 7G. Otherwise it would confuse consumers into believing that Microsoft is 5 generations behind.

While we're on the subject, anyone have any experience or props for iAudio X5 (60gb)?

The fact that it's big and supports FLAC makes me all gooey inside...

i bought a creative zen and it was nothing but problems. Then it finally died. I bought my GF a nano and that thing is awesome!

s4zando:

Why yes, yes I do.

Don't count on the video feature. It works, but the screen is too small for it to be worth it.

Otherwise, yes, it's got MP3, FLAC, OGG, *AND* WMA support. Gets good FM radio reception, can record FM radio, has voice recording, works as a USB storage device, has a picture viewer (note: cannot view pictures and listen to music at the same time), allows interface customization (can change wallpaper/background), allows organization by ID3 tags OR directory structure.

I also sprung for the long-life battery option rather than the 60GB option. Rated 35hr, I only need to recharge it every week or two.

Also, USB Host. Kickass.

If you're so clean on FLAC, you'll care that the "sub-pack" (the mini-dock that comes with it) has an out that, while still a standard headphone size, is designed specifically for speaker setups, leaving all amplification and whatnot to the external hardware.

More at dapreview.net, where it's one of their current favorites.

What sucks about using itunes as a manager sometoast, is not that it's itunes, but that you have to use any program as a manager.
I was talking about buying an mp3 player with an ipod owning friend of mine, and was saying there was no way I could buy an ipod because I wanted an mp3 player that's drag and drop.
"The ipod is drag and drop", he said. "You just use itunes to do it."
It's not drag and drop if you need to use a program to do it.

I'm a big fan of my luxpro shuffle ripoff. It was dirt cheap, and is as simple to use as a flash drive.

clean = keen
works as a USB storage device = no weird software to put songs on it; drop and go, like most small flash players

Can't use the iPod as a USB drive? The iPod is mass-storage compliant by default! Unlike say, PlaysForSure devices (some may partition the space for protected content and free content, though, but that's just a pain, and you have to switch between them usually - Windows Media mode or disk mode). That's why those 3rd party iPod managers work so well - there's zip drivers to install. Heck, I have more data on my iPod than music. (They make very nice USB drives that happen to play music, too). About the only thing it can't do is let you drop a music file onto it directly without updating the database, if you want to play it. Heck, that's how ipod rippers work too (hint: iPod/iPod Control/Music/). If you're cheap, copy the music off it and rename them manually or use an iD3 editor to rename the files. iPod rippers just do the same thing, in a more automated fashion.

Now, by default, iTunes hides the disk, but you can just check "Enable disk mode" and it'll show up just fine. But this is just standard Windows API calls and it shows up just fine in Disk Manager.

iPods are nicely packaged portable hard drives that play music. (I'm repurposing my old iPod as a standard disk)... Heck, I remember when the Shuffle was appealing because it was cheaper than a lot of USB thumbdrives (but at least it's caused thumbdrive prices to plummet).

I'm not sure if the comments about the anti-iPod crowd were sarcastic or not, but I have many genuine reasons for disliking and avoiding iPods. Those of us who don't like them are generally not doing so simply because we think we're cool for disliking something popular. I've owned and liked many popular things. I just don't believe the iPod deserves that popularity, and it bothers me that due to its marketing and position most people don't even realize there are good alternatives available.

iPod = Fashion. dum girls wanted it much more than regulars.

Tch. I FREAKING HATE IPODS!

I have one though.... it was stolen, so I didn't get ripped off. XD

I hate using outside, 3rd party software craps to put music onto an MP3 player, or w/e else....

iTunes sucks, then you have to install iPod... Tch...

though iPods DO have a REALLY great interface, some things I still wish I could change... I like the Creative's, they're really nice..... HD display(the new one I just bought a week or so ago...)

I'll say right off I'm an Apple fan boy.

However, I'm all up for choice, so those of you who want a different solution to an iPod, thats fine with me ^_^

just a couple things to note - iPods are so popular, in general because

1) they have the best user interface, overall, out there. Apple puts the interface's ease of use of their product over functionality (1 button mouse, for example), which is what non-techies look for. because of some of these compromises, such as lack of built-in _____ (feature of your choice), in some way that makes it more complicated, and therefore unacceptable. Apple didn't invent the MP3 player market, nor did it even invent the technologies or even the actual iPod - it made a great user interface and POOF! 60 million sold. Apple is all about streamlinng difficult technology to make it easy to use - and those compromises leave little choices in some areas (DRM, iTunes has to be used, etc) which makes them look bad to people who on this forum 1) know how to actually manage files and folders 2) understand how the devices talk to the computer 3) understand the various formats of files, and want to move them around with tight control 4) want to have total control over their device, including how and where to sync it. You guys here are smart, informed, and technical. My father, My Mother, and 90% of the people I deal with in regards to iPods (I see hundreds every month in my job position) couldn't tell their ipod from a toaster. Sorry some aspects of the iPod are not for you guys, but it is for millions of people.

2) Although I'm unfamiliar with many of the non-Apple offerings (fanboy), I'm willing to bet that many of them are pretty damn good. I've seen some very, VERY stupid and ugly ones, but I imagine they're out of business now. so only the creme of the non-iPod crop is left, there is till seems to be a big missing side - the software. iTunes is a ripper that works for most of the planet, a manager of those mysterious "files" people hear about, a radio tuner, a podcast downloader, an iPod syncer, contact syncing conduit, picture and movie syncing conduit, and that's just the free part. if you WANT to buy songs, movies and TV shows from he store, you can. I cannot fathom that there is anything close to the streamlined, easy to use software that is iTunes out there that will do all of these things, or a suite that only involves a simple download and install. Again, it takes control away from key aspects you guys may want, but for the majority of people who barely understand what a file is when it doesn't have .doc on the end of it, iTunes + iPod is where it is at. the simplicity and streamlined effectiveness FAR FAR FAR outweighs any feature loss, because to most people, they either get an iPod or they keep using their radio or CD's.

The New york times tech writers may keep up with the techie news, as do I, but for a majority of the people, the selections would end up being the wrong choice not because of anything wrong with these players, but because they'd end up being given to junior because dad who reads the times couldn't figure out how to use it effectively or hook it up to his beamers dock connection in the glove-box, and that's putting it nicely.

John

"The ipod is drag and drop", he said. "You just use itunes to do it."
It's not drag and drop if you need to use a program to do it.

But using Windows Explorer... that program is ok.

I guess that for the number of mp3s I have, I prefer to have some sort of music management software that goes beyond the capabilities of the OS' file system.

i-pods sucks.b4 they were cool,but since the sansa came out.They have everything in 1 portable player.They have video,fm radio and photos,i-pod only have photos and music.my cousin have i-pod and he gets jealous with me now.